Monday, July 2, 2007
Oh, Lisa, you and your stories. Bart's a vampire. Beer kills brain cells.
From su_heraldfannishnej had an interesting discussion about ships in the Buffyverse here. And doyle_sb has a poll based on it here. It's interesting to see how credible certain 'ships are to different people. Vote if you haven't already. It's fun!1) Canon: We saw an actual relationship on screen or there was a clear reference to a past relationship.Cordelia/Xander, Fred/Wesley, Angel/Spike (yep). :)2) Near-Canon: We saw flirting or a one-time fling on screen, or there was the implication of a past relationship. I would put relationships that are only refered to in commentary or interviews into this category.Giles/Anya, Angel/Cordelia (almost a 1), Cordelia/Doyle, Angel/Faith, Willow/Xander, Cordelia/Wesley, Angel/Eve, Connor/Cordelia, Buffy/Faith, Giles/Ethan, Angel/Doyle (one word: Birthday), Andrew/Warren3) Non-Canon: There was no relationship on screen, but there was a significant amount of sub-text or build-up and the writers could easily have worked it into the series without distorting the characters too badly.Spike/Willow, Buffy/Xander (although, ew), Willow/Giles (just 'cause I like the ship in fanfic), Willow/Fred, Anya/Willow, Faith/Lilah, Cordelia/Faith (just because I've read a few fics that made me think it could work), Gunn/Wesley, Angel/Wesley, Xander/Oz, Angel/Lindsey, Andrew/Xander, Riley/Xander (hee!)4) Unconventional: There was no relationship, and it's highly unlikely that the writers could or would have worked it into the series without drastically changing who the characters are.Buffy/Giles, Spike/Willow, Joyce/Xander, Buffy/Cordelia, Fred/Harmony, Buffy/Willow, Anya/Tara, Cordelia/Harmony, Faith/Willow, Cordelia/Lilah, Buffy/Tara, Dawn/Faith, Fred/Cordelia, Spike/Xander, Giles/Xander, Giles/Oz, Giles/Wesley, Connor/WesleyETA: You know, it really urks me when people assume that slash & unconventional ships are better written in fanfic than het & canon ships. 'Cause I have read some truly shitty slash and UC fiction in my day. So much so that it makes me run back to the Spuffy most of the time. But whatever.ETA 2: When did Joss ever say that B/X would end up together in the end? I've never heard him say that. Until somebody can produce an actual quote, I refuse to believe it. *stamps foot*
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This is kind of tough in some places. For example, with both Andrew/Warren and Andrew/Xander, I see the attraction as being completely one-sided. Andrew has a crush, but I think both Warren and Xander would be horrified, so can it be a possibility in canon if only one party shows any interest? Connor and Cordelia only slept together once, but their relationship spanned nearly that whole season - except it wasn't really Cordy, it was Jasmine working through Cordy. And while Angel and Cordelia never officially got together, I still might classify them as being a canon romance, because they both admitted to loving each other.What's funny to me looking through the results of that poll is how many people are classifying relationships as "Near Canon" that I find completely asexual - like Willow/Buffy for example. If there's an onscreen moment where they seem like they could have a romantic relationship, I need someone to point it out to me. And Giles/Anya is one that I can find appealing in fanfic sometimes, but I don't see it onscreen at all. I think she looks at him very much as a father figure. It's interesting to see how different everyone's perceptions of the character's relationships are. You know, it really urks me when people assume that slash & unconventional ships are better written in fanfic than het & canon ships.I used to see statements like that back when I was reading X-Files fanfic too. It was as ridiculous then as it is now.
You know, it really urks me when people assume that slash & unconventional ships are better written in fanfic than het & canon ships. 'Cause I have read some truly shitty slash and UC fiction in my day. So much so that it makes me run back to the Spuffy most of the time. But whatever.Oh man, tell me about it. Yeah, there's ten times the amount of B/A and B/S than there is any slash/unconventional pairing, so yes, there's about 10 times the crap. But that has nothing to do with slash/UC ships just being intrinsically "better". This whole attitude about how mundane and lame canon relationships are has really bugged me for a long time. And especially with Spuffy, as we've got people ripping on it for just being so pedestrian and corny, then turning around and ripping on it for being so twisted and immoral. I'm not sure how it can be both sappingly boring and morally reprehensible all at once, but somehow Joss apparently managed it. And people say fic writers write more complex relationships!When did Joss ever say that B/X would end up together in the end? I've never heard him say that. Until somebody can produce an actual quote, I refuse to believe it. *stamps foot*I don't think he ever said that. I think they're thinking of various SMG and NB quotes. SMG once said that she always thought Joss intended to end it with B/X, and NB has talked about going to Joss to ask about B/X at the start of S7.
You know what's funny? I posted a comment almost exactly the same as this on the original post with the poll. heh.And you don't see Giles/Anya at all? That's probably the one exception to unrealized relationship pairings on Buffy that I actually do see (as far back as Good-bye Iowa even). But apparently the vibe was completely unintentional.
That's why it's all very subjective based on individual viewing experiences. Of course, personal preferences may play a part. Plus, it depends on what you define as a relationship. For some people, it's just the possibility of *it* happening. But what is *it*? Sex, kissing, flirting? I'd count Spike/Anya as a 2, since they had sex once, but it didn't lead to anything more. But that's still a lot more than most of these relationships got.
I counted Giles/Anya as a 2 just based on the kiss in "Tabula Rasa". But there were vibes in other episodes too (including season four, which I'm watching right now).
I'm not sure how it can be both sappingly boring and morally reprehensible all at once, but somehow Joss apparently managed it. And people say fic writers write more complex relationships!That's why I could never get into the whole slash/UC scene. They think they're so much cooler and more sophisticated than everyone else. Please. We're all reading/writing *fanfiction*. We're all equally lame. :)And especially with Spuffy, as we've got people ripping on it for just being so pedestrian and corny, then turning around and ripping on it for being so twisted and immoral.Ha! Yes, what is that about?
I posted a comment almost exactly the same as this on the original post with the poll. heh.Hee. Great minds think alike, I guess.;)"Tabula Rasa" is the only episode where I can see G/A at all. When I think of scenes that Giles and Anya shared together, the two that always come immediately to mind for me are in "The Body" when she hugs him and "Grave", when she pulls his attention away from favorite daughter Buffy so that he'll notice her. Both of those have a very strong parent/child vibe to me. Also, the way she desperately wants him to leave so that she can run the Magic Box at the beginning of S6 is like a child who wants Daddy to go away and leave her to her freedom. I *like* the scenes Giles and Anya have together, I just don't seem them as the least bit romantic.
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